Crimes of Persuasion

Schemes, scams, frauds.

Historical discussions of the ACN opportunity from

Below you will find a fair use condensation of material from the forum. The views expressed are those of the original posters and not the editors or publishers of this site.

More detailed info can be found at ACN MLM networking business.

ACN Australian Communication Network versus Peter Bowditch.

ACN discussions 2005

ACN discussions 2007-a

ACN discussions 2007-b

ACN discussions 2008

ACN discussions 2008-b

ACN discussions 2009

ACN discussions 2009-b

ACN discussions 2009-c

Donald Trump ACN Internet Marketing

02/06 - Even if Donald Trump does endorse ACN, it will be a PAID endorsement, or in other words, a commercial. Which then renders it meaningless, and in fact, it would be quite entertaining to me, as here is an MLM, always so "anti-advertising" as a rule, using that same hated advertising medium to build their business.

If Donald Trump were to join ACN as a rep and being to work the business, then it might be an interesting piece of information. Until that time, my response to this is "so freakin' what."

ACN Phone System

02/06 - My feeling on cost is simple: free. I am not a fan of ponying up dollar one to market for someone else. You are already going to spend money on supplies, phones, in some cases monthly autoship, etc., so why charge? In most cases, just to line the pockets of upline. And most of these companies charge annual renewal fees to cover their costs anyway. So if it ain't free, it ain't for me.

Donald Trump ACN Business Opportunity

02/06 - I can see only two possible reasons for him to become involved:

1. They are paying him an exorbitant fee to speak at the conventions. If that's the case, that's easy enough to understand. Trump knows what these events are like, and with an ego the size of a small country, The Donald would no doubt enjoy the adulation that is likly to come at such an event. And don't give me any guff about him having all the money he needs. Folks in Trump's position NEVER have enough of that.

2. He sees a chance to make big money. How? A person with his high profile is virtually CERTAIN to spur growth in a company -- many people are going to sign up (without a doubt) because The Donald came and spoke well of the company.

If I was a smart guy like Trump, I'd demand a small cut of each new reps' $499.00 entry fee, plus an override of everything they and anyone in their downline produces.

In other words, I'd demand to be placed AT THE TOP OF THE PYRAMID along with the founders. Even if the percentages given to him were small...well, talk about the ultimate leveraging! It's the smart play.

ACN Attrition Rate

02/06 - You'd certainly need to know the following to have a true analysis:

* How many people joined the company during a given period
* How many of those are left?
* How many of those are actively working the business ("actively" would, of course, need to be defined)?
* What money are each of the aforementioned making monthly during the test period?
* What socio-economic/educational background does these folks come from? In other words, who are they and what are they good at.

ACN Scam Pyramid Scheme?

02/06 - I have a friend who just joined ACN in the beginning of January of 2006. I encouraged him at first, but now that my husband ( who's a Partner with a large accounting firm) and I looked closely at how he really has to make money, we're trying to find a way to get through his thick head that he won't be a millionaire at this.

I'm amazed at how quickly he "trusts'' the leaders of ACN and won't listen to common sense from long time friends; myself included. I have a few questions myself. Is it typical to spend so much of your own money up front?

He paid the initial $499, and then bought two videophones so he could demonstrate them, signed up for all the phone services even though he's still under contract with SBC, and now tells me they need to find a rental space for meetings that's going to cost him money out of his own pocket too.

ACN also convinced my friend and two other reps to "try doing a commercial" in our area; they just forked over $425 each to put on this commercial on a cable station. No contract, no nothing on this. Just their word that it's going to air for one week between 9 and 5, five times daily, in two of the wealthiest suburbs of Chicago.

They don't even get to see the commercial. The email replies go to a guy in New York FIRST who filters through them and then will pass the future prospects of reps to them. Does this sound like the proper way to do things??? And why would they show a commercial like this in two suburbs where people are highly educated and own million dollar homes already?

After two months my friend only has three customers; himself, his mother, and one other friend. No one has any interest in the video phone period. He's a nervous wreck and if he doesn't find two more customers by Wed. he won't get any bonus. He has two reps that have done basically nothing themselves either.

Any advice here? I hate encouraging him, but my guess is that he's going to have to find out on his own he's not going to make money at this because he won't listen to reason.

ACN Network Business

03/06 - The only way you'd slide back down from ETT is if you go below 2 qualified front-line reps, and 5 personal customers.

For instance... if you had 5 front-line (meaning directly under you) reps and 1 went from having 5 customers to 4 (meaning they're no longer qualified) then you'd still be ETT because you still have 4 front-line reps.

Now if you had 5 front-line reps and 4 of them lost their qualification (had 4 or less personal customers) THEN you would have to get a new front-line rep to regain ETT status.

If you have 5 qualified reps under you and you only have 4 customers, you'll lose your ETT status.

I do believe that ACN gives you a month or so to regain the status before they actually take it away from you. So you aren't really changing levels too much. Heck I quit the business and my status showed ETT for another year... haha. We had a pretty good customer base though.

Basically.... if you have 5 personal customers, and 2 reps directly under you, who each have 5 customers.. you're safe.

The recruiting part is what I hate about ACN. If you don't recruit, you get paid little to no money... and you can't depend on your team to recruit for you. Especially with the way ACN's comp plan is, as soon as someone below you surpasses your position (hits the one above you), the entire downline below them is cut off from bonuses, so all you make on their team is residuals from their customers. So you either have to recruit your arse off until you hit RVP.. or good luck keeping the money.

I think it's also the recruiting of reps that leads to people eventually losing money. Business is almost always good at first if you're following the plan, but eventually you're going to work through your list and business will slow down.

Then you have to make a new list, find new people, that can get challenging sometimes. If you're constantly and forever meeting new and motivated people looking for opportunities, then recruiting never becomes a problem... but how likely is that to actually happen for most people?

Either way, at some point most people's businesses slow down, so you just have to keep it in your head that you're in this for EXTRA money... it's the people that quit their day-jobs too soon that end up with the problems.

ACN Network Marketing System

03/06 - My upline puts it this way:

As ACN doesn't advertise we rely on word of mouth to spread the product. It works by you asking 10 or 5 friends (depending on when you join LOL) to help your business and try the service. Then ask them to recommend 2 or 3 people they most regularly call to try the service too so they can reduce their bill further. After this usually you don't have any more options of getting customers. So the idea is you ask 2 of your friends to join ACN as reps and they do the same thing with their circle of friends and family which will be different from yours and so the network of customers grows!

I think that is a fair representative of how it should work - with no-one ripping anyone off - the product is great and I truly believe in it.

ACN Video

03/06 - I personally have no interest in a videophone; I do all my correspondence by email now and use my cell phone for calls on the run. Most of my phone calls are not done from home. The videophone would commit me and the other person to being home at the same time.

My kids, who are 19 and 21, don't use traditional phones at all now. They are totally all cell and all their friends are too. I asked my husband if he would use them for business; he's a partner with a large accounting firm. He said he doesn't see them using that sort of thing either given that it's just another "toy" and wouldn't really improve business.

I think it will be a fun toy for a minority of people and an unnecessary expense for most others. We'll see.....

Is ACN a fraud?

04/06 - If you want to say that ACN reps are selling services that are billed by ACN, that is fine. Just don't try to make it look like ACN is a facilities based telecom provider, because they are not.

Success with ACN ACN compensation plan current to April 2009

ACN Telephone Service

04/06 - Local calling is something different than long distance. Most people are served by Regional Bell Operating Companies, otherwise known as RBOCs. The RBOC companies are called "local exchange carriers" or LECs. A few years ago, it was ordered that the RBOCs open their networks to competition.

There were several companies that got into that business, and they were/are known as "competitive local exchange carriers" or CLECs. The RBOC companies (mostly the Baby Bells) litigated the issue and a few months ago, a ruling came down that RBOCs do not have to provide discounted rates to companies that want to compete with them. Most of the CLEC companies have either dropped out or have become expensive.

In a sense, it is the same as what we were discussing (although the other person involved is not interested in it any longer). The infrastructure is owned by a handful of companies. Those companies own the lines, the switches, and other hardware. They also provide all of the technical and repair services. The "other" companies compensate them for use of the facilities.

The fact of the matter is that there are only about a half dozen phone networks in exisitence (give or take). Those networks are used by hundreds of companies. I suppose one could make a case that each of the companies is a "provider".

In the sense that they purchase the product (time) at wholesale, then resell it at retail, makes them just like most other businesses. Thusfar, no one has bothered to show me how ACN does business any differently than any other non-facilities companies. There is nothing new in this business.

ACN Video Phone

04/06 - I did some research on the Video Phone and OUCH!! I like how they try to sell this too....


Telling your children goodnight no matter what city you're sleeping in
The joy in grandparents' eyes when they get to see how big their grandchildren are getting, not just hear their voices over the line
Keeping in closer contact with your business associates around the world"

For only: $410.00
Installment Plan: $275.00 down payment and $13 per month for 1 year.*

***PLUS THERE IS Shipping and handling TOO!!!!!

Sorry to say this people but this IS NOT THE NEXT THING SINCE SLICED BREAD

Why buy something like this when it is already available for a lot cheaper price? Most of us already have a high-speed Internet connection. All you need is a USB Camera/Video and a Microphone and presto, you have it!

ACN Phones

04-06 - As for those that say get the Packet8 VideoPhone if that is what you are looking for...Packet8 has raised the cost of those phones 3 times since introducing them a couple of years ago and will raise them at least once more this year.

They've already raised their monthy cost a couple of bucks and that will happen again this year I believe. As for how their videophone compares to ACN's...I've seen both in action and the picture is much better on the Wooksung ACN videophone.

Yes it's more expensive but as the old saying get what you pay for. ACN also sells the Ojo video phone by Motorola but you can buy that at retail outlets for less than you can get it from ACN.

Still the biggest issue with videophones is everyone has to have the same kind to see each other. You cannot see someone on a Packet8 videophone if you are using a Wooksung or Ojo. That is something that the industry needs to change too.

ACN Opinion

04/06 - I think cell phones would be worse because they're so expensive and you're usually dealing with contracts. Plus it may take a while to get customers BECAUSE of the contracts that people are locked into with different companies. I don't think anybody's going to pay a $175 cancelation fee just to help you out.

create new page for

ACN MLM Opportunity

04/06 - my ex is a TC and he has over 2500 customers (probably 3000 by now) and his Residuals are barely even HALF of $1000. He's also been in the company for 4 years now and has been working FULL-TIME for the past 3. So it's not hard to see how "easy" it is to make $1,000 a month residually in this company.

I'm not going to say ACN is a scam because people DO make money at it... but it's nothing like what they try to make it out to be.

ACN Business Opportunities

04/06- my recommendation is to attend the training before committing yourself to anything. I will tell you that ACN is not for everyone, so by doing your due diligence you can decide if it is for you. As far as the company being legitimate, there is no doubt that they are.

They have a legal council of three former state attorney generals, and like you said they have the endorsement from Donald Trump. Telecom is a competetive industry, but once again their competetive advantage is in the fact that they are not spending hundreds of millions of dollars in pre-sale advertising.

That is how they keep their costs below the large incumbent carriers. Everywhere where they offer their local/long distance bundled package, they beat the incumbent carrier by 3-5 dollars, and their new digital phone is cheaper than all of the cable companies as well as the phone companies now offering the service. They are also a dollar cheaper than Vonage.

In conclusion, take a look at the company again at the training before making a committment. Also, check out the leadership. There are some great leaders in ACN and then there are some not so great leaders, and it makes a big difference.

There is an opportunity to make a substantial residual income with ACN, it just takes some time and some serious effort. Take a look again at the comp plan and see what it takes. It is going to take building a large team, who you train well in attaining customers. MLM can be a lucrative business, and ACN is no exception.

The $500 is fairly easy to get back in the first month, so that is why I have no qualms presenting the opportunity to my friends and family. One piece of advice though in recruiting, do not try to force people to do this business.

The people who complain about losing friends or alienating themselves from their families are the ones that push too hard when somone is clearly just not interested. I wish you the best of luck in whatever decision that you make. Listen to all the sides and make your own decision based on your own needs and personality.

Is ACN a Legitimate Company?

04/06 - It's more time-consuming than they let on if you actually want to make money. Since the focus is on reps, you have to continuously hold opportunity meetings and take new reps to weekly and monthly training meetings as well as national conventions. You may make the initial $500 back in a month, but there are a lot more expenses to ACN than people are letting on.

Praise for ACN Marketing Network

04/06 - I urge you to talk with people who have had success with ACN. Don't listen to people who have failed at it or who have never even been involved. If you truly want to succeed at anything in life, why would you listen to people who were not successful?

Remember that people who fail, externalize their blame for the failure. That is human nature. People tend to blame everything and everyone but themselves when they fail. Thousands of people have been successful with ACN, so talk with them and find out how they did it.

As far as how much time it takes to be successful, you do not need to devote 40 hours a week to ACN in the beginning, however make sure that whatever time you do devote to it, use it wisely. A lot of people spend a lot of time just spinning their wheels and then complain that nothing is happening for them.

April says her ex works 40 hours a week and still lives with his parents. I would venture to say that if he is spending that much time in ACN and not getting results, he may want to look at himself in the mirror and figure out what he is doing wrong.

I hope that you take a serious look at this company, as it is one with integrity and founders who are great individuals who truly care about the people in this company.

ACN Opportunities Abound

07-06 - The name of our company is ACN and we are a 13 year old international telecommunications company expanding in the area. In the last 5 years we have grown 400% and are close to doing over 1 billion dollars a year.

We offer a new technology that is revolutionizing our industry. It’s called digital phone service or VOIP. Have you heard of it? It will someday replace land lines & right now we can call unlimited in North America for $23.99 a month with virtually no taxes and every calling feature included.

We have also partnered with Verizon with cell phones and Donald Trump is endorsing into our Company as well!

Timing is everything. Imagine being involved in the beginning of companies like Microsoft, Google, and Sprint. That’s what we have here with our company.

And as an ACN representative every time you acquire a customer you receive a residual commission month after month year after year for making a 1 time referral on a bill your customers are paying anyway.

Now for assisting us in the international expansion of our company on a part time basis you should expect to earn a few thousand dollars a month.

The full time executives of ACN earn over six figures a year with no limit to their income. How does that sound?

ACN Network Marketing Scam?

08/06 - When it comes to this company you would be paying $499 just to get others to pay $499, and that is where you would make almost all of your money. You would get paid .0025% on most of your customers (levels 1-5), which means you wouldn't be building a very good long-term residual income. Your money would be from recruiting bonuses.

Wouldn't it make more sense to find a company that pays you 4-30% on your customers instead of .0025%? There are plenty of companies out there that do that.

Is ACN a Good Company?

12/06 - there are a few TCs in ACN that are making money BUT... it's recruiting bonus money.

For instance....... my ex's upline TC made well over $30,000 off of my ex's production. He went out and bought a brand new BMW M3. But it wasn't long after that when my ex hit TC and his upline TC's bonuses stopped (when you promote someone to your level, you get cut off from all bonuses).

So my ex's upline TC went back to only getting his puny residuals and no bonuses. He ended up having to sell the BMW and soon after got a job (along with many of the other TCs in our area).

Frankly I think that if TCs are making that much money they should be INVESTING it.. not spending it on expensive apartments, suits, and cars, because frankly, the real money just isn't stable in ACN.

Another example, my ex.... he was doing really well his first 6 months or so as a team coordinator. Then his top producers started researching ACN more and realized it wasn't what they thought it was, and they left the company (as did their downlines).

His production screeched to a halt and he had to live off of his residuals (under $600, mind you... after working his behind off for 3 years). Luckily for him he was actually smart enough to pay off some of his bills instead of going out and buying cars and expensive apartments.

ACN Compensation Plan

12/06 - You do not get "completely cut off", I should know, I get paid the overrides on 2 generations of TC's, RVP's and SVP's.

Of course the 1 to 5 levels are .025%. They are small and insignificant in income because we pay the motherload of 7% on the largest level you build. Not the levels where you have very few people. If you had ever built a team you would know this to be a FACT.

I punch my numbers into all the comp plans for all the here today gone tomorrow telcom companies. They are all pay cuts. 100% of the time. Not a single person has shown me a pay plan where I don't lose income. You would be welcome to try but you don't even know that we pay generational bonuses, so I guess you won't be able to educate me. Plain and simple.

To answer your question is ABSOLUTELY OK to get paid nothing for those foundton levels to reach financial freedom and a massive 7th level payout. It's called exponential growth and is based upon the penny doubled example. Since my team is ever growing more and more people every day reach the 7th level.

While they wait for the massive residual, they get paid HUGE TCAB far the largest in the industry. If they squander those bonuses and waste them on expensive cars and homes, then they are idiots and need to get better financial advice. All my leaders wait to pass their income for 6 straight months before they go full-time. That's called SMART.

ACN Prospects Bleak

12/06 - My main problem with ACN's comp plan is that it isn't balanced. You make almost ALL of the money from recruiting, and barely any from getting customers. Because of that, ACN is like a job.

You stop recruiting, your team stops recruiting, and you're in trouble. You HAVE to have new people coming onto your team or you're going to have a very small paycheck.

ACN Complaints

12/06 - What I don't understand is why people keep paying $499 to join a company to sell the same products that dozens of other companies have - for a very small residual?

I would imagine that the BIG $$ comes from those that sign up paying all that dough, that is then split upline for "customer acquisition bonuses", "training bonuses" or whatever they can figure to call a "bonus" - basically, huge money is made when someone signs up to play the game?

I mean - a 7 level plan with the highest % (7%) being paid out on this level. I would estimate that 75% of reps in any mlm business never get 3 levels, never mind 7?

More detailed info can be found at ACN MLM networking business.

ACN Australian Communication Network versus Peter Bowditch.

ACN discussions 2005

ACN discussions 2007-a

ACN discussions 2007-b

ACN discussions 2008

ACN discussions 2008-b

ACN discussions 2009

ACN discussions 2009-b

ACN discussions 2009-c